In the Video Opera category, the ICMA jury awarded the prize to a production that critics, especially Germans, have argued fiercely about before: Die Fledermaus, staged in Munich in December 2023 by Barrie Kosky with Vladimir Jurowski conducting and singers such as Diana Damrau, Georg Nigl, Martin Winkler and Katharina Konradi in the main roles of the iconic Strauss work. Jury member Anastassia Boutsko (Deutsche Welle) congratulated Vladimir Jurowski on behalf of Jury and asked him a few questions.
Were you pleased to receive the ICMA award?
I was very surprised, because there were not only positive reviews for this production. There was also criticism, also in the direction of the music. The Munich critics in particular didn’t seem at all enthusiastic about the way I tried to interpret Johann Strauss’ music. I sometimes have the feeling that they are floating in memories of times long past without actually knowing what it was really like.
I grew up with Carlos Kleiber’s recording from Munich. And I studied his orchestral material, we play from this material. I really know every note, what he did and where. But of course I do some things differently, but my interpretation is definitely and consciously based on Kleiber’s.
I have to say: as critics and music journalists, we too were quite astonished when Vladimir Jurowski, an expert in rare and new 20th century music, suddenly made a Fledermaus. One could also have asked: What merry devil has been riding you and Barrie Kosky (who also resisted staging an operetta for a long time)? Was it the approaching big Strauss anniversary in 2025?
I hadn’t thought about the jubilee date at all, I only noticed it recently. Barrie Kosky and I simply wanted to slaughter another ‘sacred cow’ here in Munich after the very successful Rosenkavalier, which we did together with Barrie in 2021. And it’s true that I love this piece dearly and have been conducting it for almost three decades now. I conducted my first Fledermaus at the Komische Oper in Berlin at the age of 25. It was Harry Kupfer’s production, which I took over at the time. It was rehearsed by my then boss Jacob Kreuzberg. Then, in 2003, I initiated my own new production of Die Fledermaus at Glyndebourne. Finally, there was another Fledermaus in Paris at the Opéra Bastille…
But why? What makes Die Fledermaus special for you – musically and in terms of content? Why is this social satire, written 150 years ago, still interesting today?
Well, it’s one of the most evil satires there is. Because it’s a play without any real sympathetic characters. They are all somehow corrupt and misbehave in some way, but at the same time they are all incredibly likeable and sympathetic. Despite, or perhaps because of, their many human flaws.
But in addition to this satirical top side, there is this really divine music, which is partly reminiscent of Mozart and Schubert and also has a lot in common with Offenbach. It is a kind of Viennese answer to Offenbach. A musical comedy with depth, one would say.
Where do you see this depth?
Well, the story is what it is: it’s evil, it’s cynical, it’s loveless, totally loveless, but filled with the expectation of lust. You can literally smell this lust. Everything is enriched by human hormones, both male and female.
But the music – the music really does have depth! And that is the miracle of Johann Strauss. He writes a lot of nasty or frivolous stuff, but with music that you’d like to hear in heaven once you’ve landed in heaven. My teacher always said: “When I die and go to heaven, I hope to be able to listen to Johann Strauss music there every day!”
…and maybe there, in music heaven, he will meet Johann Strauss himself. What defines this composer for you?
On the one hand, Johann Strauss the Son is a marginal figure in the classical musical firmament of our time. On the other hand, he was one of the central figures of the 19th century. We know that he was revered and envied by illustrious and world-famous composers – not just for his success, but for his music. And that includes people like Wagner, Brahms and Liszt.
Vladimir Jurowski
What do you think is the secret of his success?
The quality of his music! No one was as brilliant as Johann Strauss. And he also absorbed all the musical developments that were going on at the same time. There are pieces by him that are based on themes from Offenbach, Verdi and even Wagner. And he was definitely aware of Russian music, Berlioz and all that. But he always remained himself.
So for me, this is a figure comparable to a George Gershwin in the 20th century: someone who takes a clearly personal path and at the same time is fully aware of all the developments. I mean: Gershwin was also very familiar with the whole Schönberg circle as well as with Rachmaninov or Stravinsky. But he himself never tried to compose like the other greats, he simply composed his music and was successful with it.
We are talking here in Munich in the first days of March, while world politics seems to be turning into one absurd theatrical landscape. How do you feel when you enter the orchestra pit today?
Yes, with the same feeling that I’ve had for a long time or always: the world is in a precarious situation. People are bad. But we have to do something to help the day end on a positive note and simply give people a bit of hope, a bit of good humor.
Change of subject: Do you still listen to CDs yourself?
I have a lot of CDs and LPs, they actually number in the hundreds and maybe even thousands. And I also have a very good record player and a lamp amplifier. And when I actually have time and am at home, I turn on this amplifier and wait 30-40 minutes for it to warm up. And then I listen to old records, but then actually vinyl records, sometimes even shellac records.
